"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
TS_comments wrote:
For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder. I will explain why soon.
Of course it is EXTREMELY important! If the ambulance pic was given/sold to the media and shown online before Michael's actual time of death was officially called; that would be in favor of the hoax.
Something like that?
Kinda like how TMZ knew and reported it before the doctor I mean Jermaine reported time of death.
TS_comments wrote:
For example, the timing of when the ambulance photo was released--this point is EXTREMELY important, especially when it comes to the question of hoax versus murder. I will explain why soon.
Of course it is EXTREMELY important! If the ambulance pic was given/sold to the media and shown online before Michael's actual time of death was officially called; that would be in favor of the hoax.
Something like that?
Kinda like how TMZ knew and reported it before the doctor I mean Jermaine reported time of death.
Did we already find out when it was posted first? I thought ET was the first and as far as I remember it was quite soon after the 'death'. Yet their archive says June 28... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Indicator for the publishing time could be early tweets about the photo.
Here are some (Guiliana Rancic is a host on E! News):
Gd nght! Hope u have a wonderful week. Instead of focusing on what u don't have, focus on what u DO have & be grateful...more will come:)
8:00 AM Jun 22nd, 2009 via web
@GiulianaRancic please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
2:30 AM Jun 26th, 2009 via UberTwitter in reply to GiulianaRancic
No, we won't. RT @EricaMM Please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
6:03 PM Jun 25th, 2009 via web
Giuliana Rancic gives her location on twitter in Los Angeles.
EricaMM gives her latitude / longitude on twitter and that is pointing towards California as well.
You will notice some time discrepencies between the tweets.
I am currently having no explanation for that except that
a) twitter's crash due to MJ had some severe data base consequences
b) EricaMM was NOT in California.
The photo of Jackson is the last image published before his untimely death, Thursday, June 25,2009. The photo shows Jackson in an ambulance being worked on by paramedics who were attempting to revive the King of Pop.
Jackson was pronounced dead at 2:26 p.m. at the UCLA Medical Center.
No, I guess I missed that one. So June 25 6:03 pm we have for now.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
But the link to the ET article doesn't work anymore and ET has it in the archive for June 28....why? That's strange.
The first comment on the blog was 19:06 (7:06 pm). But what timezone? LA or NY is a big difference.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
"Conclusions:
1) There was some guy popping up out of the blue in January and May 2009 reporting as a "neighbour" for OVGuide.com - a video platform site (former top 500 site). He was ringing the bell at a rear gate of MJ which appears to be new evidence (I saw those vids in 2009 already but could not connect... LOL). This man introduced the "rear gate" to us.
2) The leaves of the plants surrounding the bell box from the video ressemble those in the ambulance pic pretty much, yet they are not only to be found at that bell's address.
3) There may be a "hidden" gate of "moving branches" as the real gate to the Jackson family home.
4) I would consider talking a complete different house and gate and that Carolwood was a smokescreen since I do not have seen any proof yet that the green "rear" gate does exist there. Maybe one of our fellows in LA may check that for us? If the green gate does not belong to Carolwood mansion, it is likely to be found in some hilly area though and may be located just across the street."
Is it really necessary, useful if I go Carolwood drive and observe location and house? Would that help with anything? I can go, no problem.
I'm wondering if people's head goes into an ambulance first??
This is from TMZ with Joan Collins, and her head is in first.
<!-- m -->http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/02/joan-coll<!-- m --> ... air-party/
That glass is not polarized and ambulance lights are ON <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Okay, but, still being able to see in or not, lights or not, I wonder if head goes in first ALWAYS or not.
Head ALWAYS goes in first. Unless a bizarre circumstance such as a woman is labor where birth is imminent but you can't deliver on scene for some reason. However, this is still rarely done even in that rare instance. I haven't heard of anyone actually doing it, I just know it's something that can be done if need be. But even then, the head of the stretcher still goes in first, the woman just sits in the opposite direction. The stretcher can only go in one way, and this is standard where ever you go.
For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them! But actually, that is the way I want it. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Nevertheless, I am now going to go into an extensive analysis of Ben's slip, and why the timing of the photo release is EXTREMELY important.
Here is the statement, word-for-word, with a little context. "So, yes, Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ---- are a part of that agreement, are gonna make a lot of money. Absolutely!" {at 4:05, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4}.
The first step in analyzing this slip, is understanding what Ben almost said--it should be obvious, but let's make it very clear. He almost said: "... that day and the other DAY!" We know this because of the word "other". You say: “That tree, and the other tree …”, or “This car and the other car …”--you don’t say: “That tree and the other car …” So if the noun before and after "other" is the same noun, then it would have to be "... that day and the other DAY." This conclusion is further verified by the fact that Ben had actually pronounced the first letter of the next word, before interrupting himself; and that first letter is quite clearly a "d" sound.
The next step is to assess the slip-up factor. Whether intentional or accidental, this statement has all the signs of a slip-up. Not only does Ben interrupt himself right in the middle of the word "day"; but at that same instant, he blinks his eyes and turns away from the camera. Then he stammers a couple of times, before getting himself somewhat back together--and the letting the word "agreement" slip out. <!-- s --><!-- s -->
So if this is an intentional slip-up, then we surely have a faked photo (regardless of how it was faked); and also a hoax, not murder--because surely nobody would INTENTIONALLY slip-up on a pre-meditated plot to murder the KING! But what if it was an accidental slip, could it then be murder? Well, even if murder, it would still be a PHONY PHOTO! Which is the main point of investigation right now. However, this is where the timing of releasing this photo gets very interesting.
We know "that day" was June 25, 2009; there were too many people who observed and reported it, for them all to be in on the hoax (including the tour bus, etc). But when was the "other day" that Ben spilled for us: before or after June 25 (it can NOT be the SAME day, or it would not be the "OTHER" day)?
If the photo was first released on June 28, or 27--then perhaps the other day was June 26. Perhaps after attempting to get a good shot of MJ in the ambulance, they had nothing usable; so they scrambled to pull together a staged shot on June 26 (the "other day"), and then released the famous fake photo shortly after. If this is how it really went, then perhaps MJ could have really died on June 25 (murdered, or whatever); and these paparazzi guys were in on nothing, except fake journalism--not in on a murder plot, and not in on a hoax plan.
However, what if the photo was first released ON JUNE 25??? And yes, we have several evidences of this--including tweets, news reports, and even the personal testimony of one or more on this very forum and thread! So if the photo was released on June 25, then the "other day" was BEFORE June 25; and so we have the paparazzi being in on SOMETHING planned in advance, the only question is what.
Could it be that they were in on a murder plot? Does this fit the murder theory? Think about it a little. How many extra people would be involved in this pre-meditated murder plot, just to get a photo? We would have Ben, "Chris, AND the other PEOPLE [staged paramedics?] that were there that day AND THE OTHER D[AY]"! The word "people" is plural, including a MINIMUM of two, and usually three or more--PLUS Ben and Chris. So we have here at least four, and probably more, involved in a premeditated murder plot--JUST TO GET A SINGLE PICTURE?!?!?!?!?!?!? Why would the murderers spend all the money to bribe several people to be murder accomplices, and also increase the risk of the whole murder plot getting exposed? The more people who know about the murder, the more likely somebody will spill the beans--whether intentionally or not, such as Ben's slip for example! Why all that money and risk, just for a picture? Why would murderers give ten cents for a picture, why would they care???
If it is a hoax, on the other hand, then there is a very important reason for the ambulance photo: to help convince the public that MJ died! A picture is worth a thousand words, right? Now several have mentioned on this very thread, that most unbelievers agree that the photo is fake; but they still think it is murder. WHAT??? Did they ever stop to THINK about WHY a sinister murder plot would be designed to include a pre-planned fake ambulance picture?
LOL- TS- No, they don't. That is the battle we fight with non-believers every day. Many SEE the nonsense or cannot argue against some of the issues brought up- yet they are dead set on murder.
The picture is always one of my main points- there is absolutely NO POINT in having it released or faked. Oh, I just remembered on "murder" argument I heard before: the picture was faked to show how "healthy" Michael was. Which directly contradicts what many murder-theory believers also say- that he was emaciated and thin, as witnessed by several followers.
Btw- I believe the paramedics to be in on the hoax, not only due to the picture having possibly been taken on another day, but also due to the following contradiction: How did the "hospice patient like" MJ they testified to having found in the house morph into the very recognizable and "healthy" looking MJ in the ambulance? If they were NOT in on the hoax- the contradiction doesn't make any sense. So, both possible scenarios (the pics having been taken before- which I tend to lean toward due to release time) and there being a "fake" MJ (dummy...etc) in the ambulance to me scream, paramedics are fake. That makes the 911 call fake (which explains the discrepancy in the tapes, the call showing as having been made from the Beverly Hills HOtel), too. Why would people be involved: MONEY. - and an ongoing deal. THe actors probably are still playing in different parts.
Oh, another thing- I highly doubt that Michael went to the hospital that day. Too risky- and not necessary if the EMTs were in on the hoax.
Interesting what you guys have discovered re hidden gate and the proximity to Elvis' previous estate. Hm...
Oh, another thing- I highly doubt that Michael went to the hospital that day. Too risky- and not necessary if the EMTs were in on the hoax.
And Larry King Live is a cake walk??
Lol. You forget MJ can disguise himself as anyone and no one would ever be the wiser.
and no certainly not necessary for MJ to go to UCLA that day, the role could have been played by anyone (EMT, helicopter sitter-upper, coroner van jumper outer), but it would be an awful lot of fun to play yourself.
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.
True but most people just went with it and accepted it as "proof" that Michael was in a bad way if not already dead.
This photo serves two purposes then - to show Michael "died" and to get people thinking "that ain't right - something fishy is going on". We are in the latter group and for some reason our group is much smaller...
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.
Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture. But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker! The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes! Nobody would WAKE UP!!!
The car is next to the van, yet the car is in perspective because of the angle. To get the car parallel with the ambulance in the reflection, the guy should have made a shot without angle. That way he wouldn't have achieved the angle he has now, and he would have blocked the reflection himself. This shows that the car must have been shopped in, the red car should have been in perspective like on chappies picture, because the only moment they could have gotten the red car in the reflection, was when the ambulance was parallel with it, just before it drove off. Parallel car + picture with angle = car reflection in perspective. We don't see that on the ambulance picture.
@TS: I know you want us try and prove the picture is real, but the harder I try, the more I find that makes it a fake. That's probably your purpose though...
Yes, that is part of the purpose. However, I still want to play "devil's advocate", and challenge whatever I can. So here I go on this one.
What if the ambulance was NOT parallel with the red car? What if the pap was taking the shot through the window at an angle (barely off the right side of the window, just enough to keep himself out of the shot, and pointing towards the back of the ambulance)? What if the ambulance was maneuvering, when the famous photo was taken, and the two angles canceled each other, so that it looked in the reflection like the car was parallel with the ambulance? Notice also in Ambulance1 picture, that the top of the wall appears to be at an angle (with the right side of the wall lower than the left).
This may be here nor there, but a bell rang when someone mentioned that on the ambulance picture, something was wrong with MJ's nose. That person remarked that it looked like it had bubbles at the tip. I smirked to myself, because this reminded me of something when I was a kid. I just laughed and kept reading--I think I was three pages behind, when I came back to the site that night---you guys are smokin' <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> One thing at a time, focus. I read through and forgot about it.
But, reading tonight, it came up again---TWICE, that something is amiss about his nose, in the picture. I have a theory as to what is going on... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
But first, something else occurred to me while y'all were on a roll about the wax dummy in the vehicle. As hot as you are on the trail, I believe it would be impossible and risky try to get rid of a full sized dummy---wax or otherwise---some kind of mannequin or even a rag doll, without SOME one seeing it at exit of the ambulance.
Even being seen with it anywhere in the emergency area, would have raised curiosity. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
As a magician, one does not even leave a TRAIL of suggestion, which is not what you MEANT. NO THING pointing eyes TO the trick, only away...
A day's prank, ok---but a two year Hoax? No no no! Not even the faintest <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> image of a dummy/substitute near MJ's news story may be planted in peoples' minds!!
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Holy moley, talk about a hot potato, NO one can be found with a dummy, or it would immediately register in at least a couple of peoples' minds that MJ is acting up. I think THAT would have put more investigative curiosity on things right there, and it would have busted the charade. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
I now think that if there was a dummy, it had to be the kind which can be deflated in a minute and stuffed in someone's shirt or pants, secured by their belt. It has to be something which completely disappears before the ambulance doors are thrown open at the hospital. (btw, this reminds me of the time MJ told Rabbi Boteach, in passing, that he is embarrassed by male performers who "stuff their pants". COINCIDENCE? <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> )
Ok. WHO is left to exit the vehicle, as "the injured" then? Oh........just some totally nondescript older man, or even some young man---OR GIRL, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> just anyone who can easily DISAPPEAR in any crowd.
The press, others, are looking for Michael Jackson. Even if some one sneaks in the other way and meets them from the front, the "Patient" has already quickly been stripped of anything remotely MJ [such as, say, a younger MICHAEL JACKSON MASK, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> and all people would see is a couple EMTs and other <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> people in the hallway. I think it would be WAY too dangerous to risk the real MJ confined either in that ambulance or ER entranceway!!
But, this is very very common in the vestibule of the ER. You ALWAYS see EMTs WITHOUT their charges(the person they picked up and delivered to ER) while they wait for signatures on their paperwork, or sometimes wait to see if their patient has stabilized. And, as NO one can just walk into the double doors where the patients and the action IS, NO one is the wiser as to WHO it was. So, who WAS that masked "man"??? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
The older man--or younger man---or girl---body double, simply walks back through the crowd, as if (s)he has been treated hours earlier and released, having NOTHING to do with the MJ delivery to ER... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
This brings me to this: When I was 15 I made a rubber mask of my own likeness for a class. I had to do it twice, because I never did it before, and flubbed up the nose. <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> But it wouldn't have mattered; cuz after my second failed attempt, my teacher told me this was a common problem. The very tip of the first nose was mildly bubbly <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> . The second one, the very tip stayed in the mold! <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: -->
This <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> is what I found funny a couple days ago omg---without even realizing the similarities!! Incidentally, I still have this frightening thing nailed to a board, with a chipped nose!! It hung for years <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> in our living room(my mom was so proud <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> ).
But, my main point is, that I believe MJ's MICHAEL album is more closely tied to this hoax than I first thought. Perhaps, Behind The Mask is a HINT about the ambulance pic! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
JUST the TITLES of songs---not all the lyrics. Look at "Hollywood" (Tonight) <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> on the video we've been dissecting on this thread. Hollywood, you betcha, and TONIGHT! Breaking News!
MJ sings, "SHE's" going Hollywood...That's why I think the body double was female. EVERYone would be looking for a male to come out of the ambulance or be in that hallway/ ER....
Ok streaming over. Having trouble posting--staying connected <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
I think now that there are poor chances for the ambulance pic to be real, especially after seeing Chappie's trials.
And because the paramedics said they didn't recognize MJ, but in the pic we can clearly see it is Michael and he is recognisable with not any special effort.
So Ben faked the photo, but what does this proove?
He did it for money, or he did it to cover up a hoaxed death?
I just don't know. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
But first, something else occurred to me while y'all were on a roll about the wax dummy in the vehicle. As hot as you are on the trail, I believe it would be impossible and risky try to get rid of a full sized dummy---wax or otherwise---some kind of mannequin or even a rag doll, without SOME one seeing it at exit of the ambulance.
|
Much as I enjoyed reading your ideas, if the whole dummy (or even real MJ) pic was done on 'the other day', there would actually be no need for anything 'risky' to be in the ambulance on 25th.
(An old hospice patient maybe, but that's a huge other theory which I'm not about to get into just now!)
Oh, ItsHer, I also feel the Michael album has a lot to do with the hoax, if we have a hoax, even if I am not sure I'm only hearing the things I want to hear, maybe there aren't even there <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I am surprised of believers' lack of reaction in general to the meanings of the lyrics ......of course there were many who reacted but I think it's much more in the Michael album to discover...yet.....
Anyway, in my opinion Behind the mask is not related to the ambulance photo, but of course I might be wrong.
Comments
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Of course it is EXTREMELY important! If the ambulance pic was given/sold to the media and shown online before Michael's actual time of death was officially called; that would be in favor of the hoax.
Something like that?
Kinda like how TMZ knew and reported it before the doctor I mean Jermaine reported time of death.
Did we already find out when it was posted first? I thought ET was the first and as far as I remember it was quite soon after the 'death'. Yet their archive says June 28... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Souza, did you see this post from Grace a few pages back? I think this is the nearest we've got yet to when the pic was first released.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."But the link to the ET article doesn't work anymore and ET has it in the archive for June 28....why? That's strange.
The first comment on the blog was 19:06 (7:06 pm). But what timezone? LA or NY is a big difference.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."1) There was some guy popping up out of the blue in January and May 2009 reporting as a "neighbour" for OVGuide.com - a video platform site (former top 500 site). He was ringing the bell at a rear gate of MJ which appears to be new evidence (I saw those vids in 2009 already but could not connect... LOL). This man introduced the "rear gate" to us.
2) The leaves of the plants surrounding the bell box from the video ressemble those in the ambulance pic pretty much, yet they are not only to be found at that bell's address.
3) There may be a "hidden" gate of "moving branches" as the real gate to the Jackson family home.
4) I would consider talking a complete different house and gate and that Carolwood was a smokescreen since I do not have seen any proof yet that the green "rear" gate does exist there. Maybe one of our fellows in LA may check that for us? If the green gate does not belong to Carolwood mansion, it is likely to be found in some hilly area though and may be located just across the street."
Is it really necessary, useful if I go Carolwood drive and observe location and house? Would that help with anything? I can go, no problem.
Yes, and here is another report: http://www.thedirt.com.au/blog/michael-jacksons-last-photo/20090626-4jvd.html?page=3
For the most part, I am just sitting back and watching people discover some of my secrets, before I get around to spilling them! But actually, that is the way I want it. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Nevertheless, I am now going to go into an extensive analysis of Ben's slip, and why the timing of the photo release is EXTREMELY important.
Here is the statement, word-for-word, with a little context. "So, yes, Chris, and the other people that were there that day and the other d---- and uhhh, and uhhh ---- are a part of that agreement, are gonna make a lot of money. Absolutely!" {at 4:05, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VR-HSc2aM4}.
The first step in analyzing this slip, is understanding what Ben almost said--it should be obvious, but let's make it very clear. He almost said: "... that day and the other DAY!" We know this because of the word "other". You say: “That tree, and the other tree …”, or “This car and the other car …”--you don’t say: “That tree and the other car …” So if the noun before and after "other" is the same noun, then it would have to be "... that day and the other DAY." This conclusion is further verified by the fact that Ben had actually pronounced the first letter of the next word, before interrupting himself; and that first letter is quite clearly a "d" sound.
The next step is to assess the slip-up factor. Whether intentional or accidental, this statement has all the signs of a slip-up. Not only does Ben interrupt himself right in the middle of the word "day"; but at that same instant, he blinks his eyes and turns away from the camera. Then he stammers a couple of times, before getting himself somewhat back together--and the letting the word "agreement" slip out. <!-- s
So if this is an intentional slip-up, then we surely have a faked photo (regardless of how it was faked); and also a hoax, not murder--because surely nobody would INTENTIONALLY slip-up on a pre-meditated plot to murder the KING! But what if it was an accidental slip, could it then be murder? Well, even if murder, it would still be a PHONY PHOTO! Which is the main point of investigation right now. However, this is where the timing of releasing this photo gets very interesting.
We know "that day" was June 25, 2009; there were too many people who observed and reported it, for them all to be in on the hoax (including the tour bus, etc). But when was the "other day" that Ben spilled for us: before or after June 25 (it can NOT be the SAME day, or it would not be the "OTHER" day)?
If the photo was first released on June 28, or 27--then perhaps the other day was June 26. Perhaps after attempting to get a good shot of MJ in the ambulance, they had nothing usable; so they scrambled to pull together a staged shot on June 26 (the "other day"), and then released the famous fake photo shortly after. If this is how it really went, then perhaps MJ could have really died on June 25 (murdered, or whatever); and these paparazzi guys were in on nothing, except fake journalism--not in on a murder plot, and not in on a hoax plan.
However, what if the photo was first released ON JUNE 25??? And yes, we have several evidences of this--including tweets, news reports, and even the personal testimony of one or more on this very forum and thread! So if the photo was released on June 25, then the "other day" was BEFORE June 25; and so we have the paparazzi being in on SOMETHING planned in advance, the only question is what.
Could it be that they were in on a murder plot? Does this fit the murder theory? Think about it a little. How many extra people would be involved in this pre-meditated murder plot, just to get a photo? We would have Ben, "Chris, AND the other PEOPLE [staged paramedics?] that were there that day AND THE OTHER D[AY]"! The word "people" is plural, including a MINIMUM of two, and usually three or more--PLUS Ben and Chris. So we have here at least four, and probably more, involved in a premeditated murder plot--JUST TO GET A SINGLE PICTURE?!?!?!?!?!?!? Why would the murderers spend all the money to bribe several people to be murder accomplices, and also increase the risk of the whole murder plot getting exposed? The more people who know about the murder, the more likely somebody will spill the beans--whether intentionally or not, such as Ben's slip for example! Why all that money and risk, just for a picture? Why would murderers give ten cents for a picture, why would they care???
If it is a hoax, on the other hand, then there is a very important reason for the ambulance photo: to help convince the public that MJ died! A picture is worth a thousand words, right? Now several have mentioned on this very thread, that most unbelievers agree that the photo is fake; but they still think it is murder. WHAT??? Did they ever stop to THINK about WHY a sinister murder plot would be designed to include a pre-planned fake ambulance picture?
The picture is always one of my main points- there is absolutely NO POINT in having it released or faked. Oh, I just remembered on "murder" argument I heard before: the picture was faked to show how "healthy" Michael was. Which directly contradicts what many murder-theory believers also say- that he was emaciated and thin, as witnessed by several followers.
Btw- I believe the paramedics to be in on the hoax, not only due to the picture having possibly been taken on another day, but also due to the following contradiction: How did the "hospice patient like" MJ they testified to having found in the house morph into the very recognizable and "healthy" looking MJ in the ambulance? If they were NOT in on the hoax- the contradiction doesn't make any sense. So, both possible scenarios (the pics having been taken before- which I tend to lean toward due to release time) and there being a "fake" MJ (dummy...etc) in the ambulance to me scream, paramedics are fake. That makes the 911 call fake (which explains the discrepancy in the tapes, the call showing as having been made from the Beverly Hills HOtel), too. Why would people be involved: MONEY. - and an ongoing deal. THe actors probably are still playing in different parts.
Oh, another thing- I highly doubt that Michael went to the hospital that day. Too risky- and not necessary if the EMTs were in on the hoax.
Interesting what you guys have discovered re hidden gate and the proximity to Elvis' previous estate. Hm...
And Larry King Live is a cake walk??
Lol. You forget MJ can disguise himself as anyone and no one would ever be the wiser.
and no certainly not necessary for MJ to go to UCLA that day, the role could have been played by anyone (EMT, helicopter sitter-upper, coroner van jumper outer), but it would be an awful lot of fun to play yourself.
True but most people just went with it and accepted it as "proof" that Michael was in a bad way if not already dead.
This photo serves two purposes then - to show Michael "died" and to get people thinking "that ain't right - something fishy is going on". We are in the latter group and for some reason our group is much smaller...
Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture. But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker! The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes! Nobody would WAKE UP!!!
(Thanks, Andrea, you beat me to it!)
Yes, that is part of the purpose. However, I still want to play "devil's advocate", and challenge whatever I can. So here I go on this one.
What if the ambulance was NOT parallel with the red car? What if the pap was taking the shot through the window at an angle (barely off the right side of the window, just enough to keep himself out of the shot, and pointing towards the back of the ambulance)? What if the ambulance was maneuvering, when the famous photo was taken, and the two angles canceled each other, so that it looked in the reflection like the car was parallel with the ambulance? Notice also in Ambulance1 picture, that the top of the wall appears to be at an angle (with the right side of the wall lower than the left).
But, reading tonight, it came up again---TWICE, that something is amiss about his nose, in the picture. I have a theory as to what is going on... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
But first, something else occurred to me while y'all were on a roll about the wax dummy in the vehicle. As hot as you are on the trail, I believe it would be impossible and risky try to get rid of a full sized dummy---wax or otherwise---some kind of mannequin or even a rag doll, without SOME one seeing it at exit of the ambulance.
Even being seen with it anywhere in the emergency area, would have raised curiosity. <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
As a magician, one does not even leave a TRAIL of suggestion, which is not what you MEANT. NO THING pointing eyes TO the trick, only away...
A day's prank, ok---but a two year Hoax? No no no! Not even the faintest <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> image of a dummy/substitute near MJ's news story may be planted in peoples' minds!!
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Holy moley, talk about a hot potato, NO one can be found with a dummy, or it would immediately register in at least a couple of peoples' minds that MJ is acting up. I think THAT would have put more investigative curiosity on things right there, and it would have busted the charade. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
I now think that if there was a dummy, it had to be the kind which can be deflated in a minute and stuffed in someone's shirt or pants, secured by their belt. It has to be something which completely disappears before the ambulance doors are thrown open at the hospital. (btw, this reminds me of the time MJ told Rabbi Boteach, in passing, that he is embarrassed by male performers who "stuff their pants". COINCIDENCE? <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> )
Ok. WHO is left to exit the vehicle, as "the injured" then? Oh........just some totally nondescript older man, or even some young man---OR GIRL, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> just anyone who can easily DISAPPEAR in any crowd.
The press, others, are looking for Michael Jackson. Even if some one sneaks in the other way and meets them from the front, the "Patient" has already quickly been stripped of anything remotely MJ [such as, say, a younger MICHAEL JACKSON MASK, <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> and all people would see is a couple EMTs and other <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> people in the hallway. I think it would be WAY too dangerous to risk the real MJ confined either in that ambulance or ER entranceway!!
But, this is very very common in the vestibule of the ER. You ALWAYS see EMTs WITHOUT their charges(the person they picked up and delivered to ER) while they wait for signatures on their paperwork, or sometimes wait to see if their patient has stabilized. And, as NO one can just walk into the double doors where the patients and the action IS, NO one is the wiser as to WHO it was. So, who WAS that masked "man"??? <!-- s
The older man--or younger man---or girl---body double, simply walks back through the crowd, as if (s)he has been treated hours earlier and released, having NOTHING to do with the MJ delivery to ER... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
This brings me to this: When I was 15 I made a rubber mask of my own likeness for a class. I had to do it twice, because I never did it before, and flubbed up the nose. <!-- s:x -->:x<!-- s:x --> But it wouldn't have mattered; cuz after my second failed attempt, my teacher told me this was a common problem. The very tip of the first nose was mildly bubbly <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> . The second one, the very tip stayed in the mold! <!-- s:evil: -->:evil:<!-- s:evil: -->
This <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P --> is what I found funny a couple days ago omg---without even realizing the similarities!! Incidentally, I still have this frightening thing nailed to a board, with a chipped nose!! It hung for years <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> in our living room(my mom was so proud <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> ).
But, my main point is, that I believe MJ's MICHAEL album is more closely tied to this hoax than I first thought. Perhaps, Behind The Mask is a HINT about the ambulance pic! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
JUST the TITLES of songs---not all the lyrics. Look at "Hollywood" (Tonight) <!-- s:!: -->:!:<!-- s:!: --> on the video we've been dissecting on this thread. Hollywood, you betcha, and TONIGHT! Breaking News!
MJ sings, "SHE's" going Hollywood...That's why I think the body double was female. EVERYone would be looking for a male to come out of the ambulance or be in that hallway/ ER....
Ok streaming over. Having trouble posting--staying connected <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:| -->:|<!-- s:| -->
Here is the LAFD patch, worn by the paramedics in the ambulance photo: http://www.fireattire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FA&Product_Code=P-Off-Blk&Category_Code=P
Is that what you were looking for?
<!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
beutiful creature, but what do you mean with this post!?
And because the paramedics said they didn't recognize MJ, but in the pic we can clearly see it is Michael and he is recognisable with not any special effort.
So Ben faked the photo, but what does this proove?
He did it for money, or he did it to cover up a hoaxed death?
I just don't know. <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( --> <!-- s
Much as I enjoyed reading your ideas, if the whole dummy (or even real MJ) pic was done on 'the other day', there would actually be no need for anything 'risky' to be in the ambulance on 25th.
(An old hospice patient maybe, but that's a huge other theory which I'm not about to get into just now!)
I am surprised of believers' lack of reaction in general to the meanings of the lyrics ......of course there were many who reacted but I think it's much more in the Michael album to discover...yet.....
Anyway, in my opinion Behind the mask is not related to the ambulance photo, but of course I might be wrong.