Gina, if he did it for money, what's stopping the paramedics from saying, uh, that pic is fake. People who have no interest in keeping it quiet would know that it was fake. It's quite a famous pic. I highly doubt real emt's would say nothing at all about it in 20 months.
Not to mention I can't see someone being dumb enough to fake a pic for that kind of big money that could so easily be whistleblown as a fake.
Besides, how does Ben obtain a Michael Jackson dummy on the day MJ dies to produce a fake in the first place.
Gina. Use common sense. The truth is slapping you in the face!
Ps. Gina, I just want to shake you sometimes. With love of course. But seriously shake you good.
TS, that ambulance photo didn't convince a lot of people that MJ died. In fact it was the catalyst that started a lot of people researching the hoax.
Yes, "a lot" in the sense of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, who researched the hoax from the ambulance picture. But the MAJORITY of people around the world, MILLIONS or even BILLIONS, who never think twice about what the media tells them--THEY bought the ambulance photo: hook, line, and sinker! The hoax would NOT work if BILLIONS of people believed that it was a hoax; then nobody would be shocked when BAM comes! Nobody would WAKE UP!!!
(Thanks, Andrea, you beat me to it!)
I'm just thinking of the reaction of the world in that they were wanting the confirmation of the ambulance or autopsy picture that MJ was dead, the haters taking delight in this gruesomeness, seeing this "villian" sort of getting what they thought he deserved. Then for fans they were horrified at seeing this, almost nauseus and the thought of autopsy pics was horrendous making many weep. This initial same day tweet speaks loudly:
@GiulianaRancic please don't show the photo of Michael on the stretcher like that other entertainment site - rise above. Thank u.
2:30 AM Jun 26th, 2009 via UberTwitter in reply to GiulianaRancic
Now after seeing the pics so many times and knowing he's alive, we're totally unphased by the pic. But in the beginning it was very shocking, like a PG-14 pic and people were in no mood to even surmise that it was a fake. That pic was all about shock value. Mind control uses trauma based incidents, and 911 was the world being traumatized so they would accept a police state where there's more invasive scrutiny and security, and we give up more rights for our safety. Perhaps MJ is playing their game to get the world's attention. JMT. I wasn't even interested in MJ before that day, and after a crash course in his life and music, started to grieve deeply with very much emotions. Believing he was alive was the only thing that gave relief from the pain. I think non-believers are still reeling with raw emotions, with no closure because the trial hasn't convicted anyone yet. It's like they're in a state of limbo, and we hoaxers are awaiting his return. Yes this photo really symbolizes this crossroads. I think Perry Mason has to piece together the who did what when story of that day before we're going to be sure of things in that pic.
Ok just thinking out loud here. If I go along with the idea that the photo was made on 'the other day', does that have to mean hoax?
You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK) So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.
Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!
I guess he read Ian Halperin's 6 month and he's dead prediction, which turned out to be true to the day. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
<!-- m -->http://www.showbizspy.com/article/18093 ... eport.html<!-- m -->
Was that a dummy? A dummy with the eyes closed?
I remember TMZ once said his eyes were wide open when he was in that bed. He closed his eyes himself or, being dead when they arrived, they closed his eyes?
Maybe the paramedics say nothing because there is nothing to say, in case the pic is real.
In case the pic is fake, yes, they sould say something, IF somebody is willing to pay any attention to what they have to say. Now that I think about it, why no media was interested in having an interview with them <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> ?
The thing I have circled in the ambo photo has niggled at me for ages. It seems to be where the headlight of the red car is...but it looks like it is something dangling out of the headlight socket...and it changes slighty in each of the 4 pics posted by TS.
Does anyone have any idea what it is that is dangling there out of the socket? to me it looks like a circus top or a carousel top.......it just doesn't look like a real headlight that has fallen out of its socket....but then again what is real in this picture? <!-- s --><!-- s -->
The car is next to the van, yet the car is in perspective because of the angle. To get the car parallel with the ambulance in the reflection, the guy should have made a shot without angle. That way he wouldn't have achieved the angle he has now, and he would have blocked the reflection himself. This shows that the car must have been shopped in, the red car should have been in perspective like on chappies picture, because the only moment they could have gotten the red car in the reflection, was when the ambulance was parallel with it, just before it drove off. Parallel car + picture with angle = car reflection in perspective. We don't see that on the ambulance picture.
@TS: I know you want us try and prove the picture is real, but the harder I try, the more I find that makes it a fake. That's probably your purpose though...
Yes, that is part of the purpose. However, I still want to play "devil's advocate", and challenge whatever I can. So here I go on this one.
What if the ambulance was NOT parallel with the red car? What if the pap was taking the shot through the window at an angle (barely off the right side of the window, just enough to keep himself out of the shot, and pointing towards the back of the ambulance)? What if the ambulance was maneuvering, when the famous photo was taken, and the two angles canceled each other, so that it looked in the reflection like the car was parallel with the ambulance? Notice also in Ambulance1 picture, that the top of the wall appears to be at an angle (with the right side of the wall lower than the left).
That's always a possibility of course, but not in this case. It could be the case when the pic was taken this exact moment, although the car is too far away to make such a big reflection. Chappie's car was less than 2 yards from the van and is more or less the same size in the reflection, the red car in this picture is at leat 6 or 7 yards from the ambulance:
Also, the guy's head is fully in front of the window on the side the EMT is sitting. So you should have seen his reflection in this angle, otherwise, if the angle was larger, you would have seen the side of the ambulance itself. They could have cropped the picture to get that out, but then you wouldn't have a lot photo left.
Now if we look at the video, which has a different scenario, we can see the red guy is right next to the yellow one. On this picture I posted he is miles away. Here the only one who could have taken the picture in that angle with the red car parallel, is the red guy. Too bad he is holding a video camera though...
Yellow guy not at the window, ambulance backing out, red guy has a shot:
Yellow guy still not at the window, ambulance still backing out:
And in the video you can see the red guy stays at that window until the ambulance is parallel with the car and drives off. So even IF the yellow guy could have made a picture in the right angle, the red guy would have blocked the reflection of the car. So to me that means that the picture I posted first, was made the other d... uhhhm.
So while you're at it Mr. D. Advocate, could you please provide me with an explanation for this? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
About the wall: I think I have determined where the wall exactly is, and it probably is indeed in perspective. But look at the car, it's not. So that means the car is not parallel with the wall, but in the video it is... Another thing is that the perspective of the wall is simply plain false, because it's flipped. The further away the object from the camera, the smaller it has to get. But in the ambulance pic it's getting bigger. Luckily chappie has a 'wall' as well, where you can clearly see how the wall in the ambulance picture should have been.
EDIT: just realized that this perspective of the wall is possible if the guy took the picture when the ambulance was backing out, yet then we still have the problem that the yellow guy wasn't at the window at that point, and that IF he had made the pic, the red guy would be in the way. Also the angle of the car makes no sense when you look at the wall. This picture is a mess (or my head is <!-- s --><!-- s --> ).
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Oh btw TS.... I am sorry if I sound obsessed with numbers, but that's actually your fault, but when I went to bed you had 7 posts, when I woke up you had 11. That's either a nice detail, or I am crazy and just haunted by SevenEleven <!-- s --><!-- s -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I think at 1:26-27, in a fraction of a second, I think I see the light is on inside the ambulance, in the left upper corner......
I'm not quite sure actually that is the light inside or a reflection of something from outside but the first impression is that there's the light inside, that meaning the pic could actually have benn captured pretty clear images from inside <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
Yet, all I can see at 1:26 is more reflections, including the face of the guy who tries to block the image.
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.
MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?
I do not but i think that photo was taken at another time not the day June 25, Ben was there to take the video that shows in the link, and I am not mad <!-- s --><!-- s --> i see, as I said in another post in minute 1:53 a person inside an ambulance with the face covered very similar to Michael
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.
MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?
It's possible, but he did have a dummy and he had himself as well, so why bother?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.
MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?
It's possible, but he did have a dummy and he had himself as well, so why bother?
Souza, I'm trying to analyse this without my hoax hat on, as TS has suggested, approaching it as if this is not a hoax and MJ is dead. So I'm exploring all the scenarios I can come up with that don't have MJ directing and controlling everything. Not losing faith you understand, just looking from different angles.
If this was a murder, why would people bother to create a fake ambulance photo? They would kill him and there would be a real ambulance picture of him. There was no need to make an agreement with paps and make them take photos that day and the other d... ummm.
About non-believers I do not believe there's a single way to make them start seeing the truth. I personally tried so hard and understood that they closed all of their senses and they only believe what they see. But like TS wrote, if Michael's purpose was to let more people to understand that this is a hoax, he would have made it in a different way, gave more clues and made everything more obvious. But he wants to shock the world, so not too many people should be aware of the hoax. Such an amazing, PERFECT plan that fits with a perfectionist!
I was thinking about the red car and wondering if that car was a random one or was it staged? And why is it red if it was staged? I wonder if it has something to do with the Red color use in the cinematography? Red symbolizes vital energy but also red symbolizes savageness and evil. So the red car could be staged to mean Michael was thereatened by evil people but he has vital energy still, he is alive. Just a thought.
maybe when ben refers to the other day he means fathers day. the day when michaeal was supposed to have talked to cherlyn lee and she told him to go to the hospital. is there a way to see if he did or did not go on that day?
Again, how does one get a life sized MJ dummy or mask that good to create a pic with.
MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
Hmmm...a puzzle. Does one need bottomless resources, when liquid rubber costs a few bucks, and one is in cahoots <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> with someone who already owns two life like imprints of his image??
May be the times MJ had casts done of his face, for Thriller, or, for that computerized Body Scan he did in the 90s, eh?
The mask made from a cast created from the Thriller makeup people would have fooled MJ's own mom. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
The one made from the computer image would have fooled MJ himself. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
The only real glitch I see with this, and it is a doozie, is that the Thriller period MJ doesn't look ANYTHING like the BAD period MJ, the one in the time window we have accepted (pretty much, yeah) as the time MJ started to plot this Hoax.... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Er, uh...
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Also, on second thought, one dummy which would NOT be thought TOO out of place in an ambulance, would be a CPR or First Aid training dummy. We only see head and shoulders...
and with an authentic Michael Jackson MASK, and through hysterical fan tears, yeah, it works.
Practically anyone would ASSUME that the EMTs were new guys and were doing a complete rescue scenario, including timing and cramped moving vehicle experience. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
I don't know but he looks like a wax dummy,could it be one of these?
<!-- m -->http://www.madametussauds.com/London/Ou ... fault.aspx<!-- m -->
I remember shortly after he died they showed some of madame tussauds work on new MJ king of pop dummies. These look so life like people get fooled here in N.Y when they see Samuel L. Jackson standing in front of the museum, they say wow its a wax figure. Ts said lets get different ideas out there.
Comments
Not to mention I can't see someone being dumb enough to fake a pic for that kind of big money that could so easily be whistleblown as a fake.
Besides, how does Ben obtain a Michael Jackson dummy on the day MJ dies to produce a fake in the first place.
Gina. Use common sense. The truth is slapping you in the face!
Ps. Gina, I just want to shake you sometimes. With love of course. But seriously shake you good.
You know how the media have obituaries and life story programmes/articles all ready to release when famous old/ill people actually die? (I'm thinking for example of the Queen Mother here in the UK) So, what if Ben and his crew suspected MJ was weak and ill and 'on his last legs' (because of comments from those who witnessed him attempting to rehearse), and wanting to be the first with a death picture, when the time eventually came, decided to fabricate a picture in advance? They could have made many, to cover any eventual scenario, and ended up being able to use the ambulance one they'd made.
Just trying to come up with ALL possibilities here, you understand! And for this one to work, comments on his poor health must have been circulating before 25th. I need to look into this angle more later, but now need to go to work!
MJ is the one with bottomless resources, not Ben.
<!-- m -->http://www.showbizspy.com/article/18093 ... eport.html<!-- m -->
I remember TMZ once said his eyes were wide open when he was in that bed. He closed his eyes himself or, being dead when they arrived, they closed his eyes?
Maybe the paramedics say nothing because there is nothing to say, in case the pic is real.
In case the pic is fake, yes, they sould say something, IF somebody is willing to pay any attention to what they have to say. Now that I think about it, why no media was interested in having an interview with them <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> ?
Does anyone have any idea what it is that is dangling there out of the socket? to me it looks like a circus top or a carousel top.......it just doesn't look like a real headlight that has fallen out of its socket....but then again what is real in this picture? <!-- s
That's always a possibility of course, but not in this case. It could be the case when the pic was taken this exact moment, although the car is too far away to make such a big reflection. Chappie's car was less than 2 yards from the van and is more or less the same size in the reflection, the red car in this picture is at leat 6 or 7 yards from the ambulance:
Also, the guy's head is fully in front of the window on the side the EMT is sitting. So you should have seen his reflection in this angle, otherwise, if the angle was larger, you would have seen the side of the ambulance itself. They could have cropped the picture to get that out, but then you wouldn't have a lot photo left.
Now if we look at the video, which has a different scenario, we can see the red guy is right next to the yellow one. On this picture I posted he is miles away. Here the only one who could have taken the picture in that angle with the red car parallel, is the red guy. Too bad he is holding a video camera though...
Yellow guy not at the window, ambulance backing out, red guy has a shot:
Yellow guy still not at the window, ambulance still backing out:
And in the video you can see the red guy stays at that window until the ambulance is parallel with the car and drives off. So even IF the yellow guy could have made a picture in the right angle, the red guy would have blocked the reflection of the car. So to me that means that the picture I posted first, was made the other d... uhhhm.
So while you're at it Mr. D. Advocate, could you please provide me with an explanation for this? <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."EDIT: just realized that this perspective of the wall is possible if the guy took the picture when the ambulance was backing out, yet then we still have the problem that the yellow guy wasn't at the window at that point, and that IF he had made the pic, the red guy would be in the way. Also the angle of the car makes no sense when you look at the wall. This picture is a mess (or my head is <!-- s
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.""For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I think at 1:26-27, in a fraction of a second, I think I see the light is on inside the ambulance, in the left upper corner......
I'm not quite sure actually that is the light inside or a reflection of something from outside but the first impression is that there's the light inside, that meaning the pic could actually have benn captured pretty clear images from inside <!-- s:( -->:(<!-- s:( -->
Yet, all I can see at 1:26 is more reflections, including the face of the guy who tries to block the image.
Bec, and anyone with good computer photography knowledge - would you actually need a physical dummy or mask to create a pic? Could you just play around with existing pics and actually construct a photo such as our ambulance pic from nothing, so to speak?
<!-- m -->http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae<!-- m --> ... d-10974241
It's possible, but he did have a dummy and he had himself as well, so why bother?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Souza, I'm trying to analyse this without my hoax hat on, as TS has suggested, approaching it as if this is not a hoax and MJ is dead. So I'm exploring all the scenarios I can come up with that don't have MJ directing and controlling everything. Not losing faith you understand, just looking from different angles.
About non-believers I do not believe there's a single way to make them start seeing the truth. I personally tried so hard and understood that they closed all of their senses and they only believe what they see. But like TS wrote, if Michael's purpose was to let more people to understand that this is a hoax, he would have made it in a different way, gave more clues and made everything more obvious. But he wants to shock the world, so not too many people should be aware of the hoax. Such an amazing, PERFECT plan that fits with a perfectionist!
I was thinking about the red car and wondering if that car was a random one or was it staged? And why is it red if it was staged? I wonder if it has something to do with the Red color use in the cinematography? Red symbolizes vital energy but also red symbolizes savageness and evil. So the red car could be staged to mean Michael was thereatened by evil people but he has vital energy still, he is alive. Just a thought.
Hmmm...a puzzle. Does one need bottomless resources, when liquid rubber costs a few bucks, and one is in cahoots <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o --> with someone who already owns two life like imprints of his image??
May be the times MJ had casts done of his face, for Thriller, or, for that computerized Body Scan he did in the 90s, eh?
The mask made from a cast created from the Thriller makeup people would have fooled MJ's own mom. <!-- s8-) -->8-)<!-- s8-) -->
The one made from the computer image would have fooled MJ himself. <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->
The only real glitch I see with this, and it is a doozie, is that the Thriller period MJ doesn't look ANYTHING like the BAD period MJ, the one in the time window we have accepted (pretty much, yeah) as the time MJ started to plot this Hoax.... <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> Er, uh...
<!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Also, on second thought, one dummy which would NOT be thought TOO out of place in an ambulance, would be a CPR or First Aid training dummy. We only see head and shoulders...
and with an authentic Michael Jackson MASK, and through hysterical fan tears, yeah, it works.
Practically anyone would ASSUME that the EMTs were new guys and were doing a complete rescue scenario, including timing and cramped moving vehicle experience. <!-- s:geek: -->:geek:<!-- s:geek: -->
<!-- m -->http://www.madametussauds.com/London/Ou ... fault.aspx<!-- m -->
I remember shortly after he died they showed some of madame tussauds work on new MJ king of pop dummies. These look so life like people get fooled here in N.Y when they see Samuel L. Jackson standing in front of the museum, they say wow its a wax figure. Ts said lets get different ideas out there.