I will say that I also believe there was a real corpse in the ambulance.
Because as TS says, “The question of whether all, some, or none of the paramedics are in on the hoax, is a question that has not yet been answered with at least two strong points which nobody can debunk.” I don’t believe that all of the paramedics were in on it because of the statement that was reported, “Paramedics didn’t realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: ‘It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man.’” #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better!
Also because of two things that concern the coroner’s office:
First there is the initial autopsy report that stated that his “emaciated body was riddled with needle marks and scars, and his head was virtually bald… Jackson's body had wasted away to a mere 112 pounds, and his stomach was completely empty except for partially dissolved pills.” The second relates to a discussion I had with a guy on my job toward the end of 2009. I was telling him about all the things that were pointing to Michael not being dead, and he was definitely a non-believer. He said he had a friend that worked in the coroner’s office and who told him that she saw Michael’s body. And because she told him that, along with the news reports, he was totally convinced that Michael was dead. I told him “I don’t deny that she saw a body, but it wasn’t Michael’s body.” To say the least that statement didn’t go over well with him.
Having an actual dead body was a necessary key in putting this hoax over. They needed a real body for the paramedic(s) and others (such as employees in the coroner’s office) that were not in on the hoax. #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better.
I will say that I also believe there was a real corpse in the ambulance.
Because as TS says, “The question of whether all, some, or none of the paramedics are in on the hoax, is a question that has not yet been answered with at least two strong points which nobody can debunk.” I don’t believe that all of the paramedics were in on it because of the statement that was reported, “Paramedics didn’t realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: ‘It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man.’” #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better!
Also because of two things that concern the coroner’s office:
First there is the initial autopsy report that stated that his “emaciated body was riddled with needle marks and scars, and his head was virtually bald… Jackson's body had wasted away to a mere 112 pounds, and his stomach was completely empty except for partially dissolved pills.” The second relates to a discussion I had with a guy on my job toward the end of 2009. I was telling him about all the things that were pointing to Michael not being dead, and he was definitely a non-believer. He said he had a friend that worked in the coroner’s office and who told him that she saw Michael’s body. And because she told him that, along with the news reports, he was totally convinced that Michael was dead. I told him “I don’t deny that she saw a body, but it wasn’t Michael’s body.” To say the least that statement didn’t go over well with him.
Having an actual dead body was a necessary key in putting this hoax over. They needed a real body for the paramedic(s) and others (such as employees in the coroner’s office) that were not in on the hoax. #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better.
onthewingsoflove
Just a thought about the guy you talked to's friend who said he saw Michael's body. Would not the person inside the coroner place who is in on the hoax, be the one to possibly switch bodies right there, putting the tags that say MJJ on another body. Remember the helicopter pics where clearly a body in a bag went from UCLA into the helicopter but a flat board left it and was carried into the county coroner's office. And of course we saw the movement of the body in the heli.
My theory is one that still sticks in my mind. I believe it was Michael in the ambulance. Of course the amb pic was staged the other day, but on the 25th, MJ could have had make-up on to look like an older hospice man, but not necessary (the paramedics if in on the hoax obviously have to lie anyway at the trial, as will everyone else in on it). The EMT 3 would have to be in on it, since any of the options of "bodies" that TS has given would be noticed as suspicious to unsuspecting paramedics. Once they got to the hospital, all the lockdown and tight security, protection for this huge celeb death would be in full force. MJ fully covered with a sheet can be wheeled whereever, and at one point at the entrance sits up just for hoax purposes (prankster that he is). Strange that at that point you don't see anyone else (media/fans) around the entrance doors. The doctor that examines him at UCLA would have to be in it, making the final assessment that he is "dead". MJ is again wrapped in the sheet (remember Black or White "I ain't scared of no sheets" <!-- s --><!-- s --> ). He is carried into the helicopter where he moves (another prank) but remains in the helicopter (taking off the sheet) for his trip to the airport. Flat body bag carried to coroner. The coroner (only one in on it) does the body switch and creates the bogus autopsy which many knowledgable people have said was riddled with irregularilies and obvious laughable errors and inconsistencies.
The biggest reason I say this is because of studying the kind of person MJ is. Someone else asked why MJ didn't just leave in the night if there was a cadaver or body double etc. Also why did he even need to leave in a plane for somewhere? Why not just lay low somewhere in hiding? He abviously returned to LA not long after, and after all these years knows how to evade public/media attention if he wants to. But I think he did the plane thing just to make a big production of closing the airport down. There are so many things about this hoax that are pure and simple, show-business stunts and spectacular fanfare. MJ is a showman, now why in the world would he give the leading role and the most fun part to play, a dead MJ to another double? His kind of mind wants to be in the centre of the action, the most thrilling part of all, all the while doing it right under the noses of the media, fans, some of the medical, police, fire, security and some friends.
Remember MJ always said that he was hands-on with everything he did, every stage of production, loves acting, director, creating, putting in illusion and magic into everthing he does.
I feel like we are going in circles, but never have any facts.
In the beginning of this rollercoaster, we all stuck with "the most obvious answers".
Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.
I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research, (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc.. Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful. A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....
The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.
You just have to look at this website and their logo......
the only problem i have with no one or nothing being in the ambulance is when they arrived at UCLA, they needed something on that stretcher. there were paparazzi surrounding the arrival. i know the security team held up their jackets, but michael couldn't risk a photo being taken of an empty stretcher. so this leaves me to believe it was either a dummy, michael or his "double." for me, rolling in with a dummy dressed up as michael (apparently) would cause more people to be in on the hoax, so personally i don't think it was his number one choice.
Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.
I agree...if you look it like this;
The paramedics could be involved but then that would mean that most of the UCLA who were involved with the MJ situation, and we know MJ wanted only a small amount of people involved in the hoax.
But then if they weren't involved and there was a real body I don't understand why the doctor wouldn't sign the death cirtificate unless the doctor is the only one who knows about the hoax...which would mean a small amount of people involved.
Also I don't think MJ himself was at UCLA because of the unpredictability (I don't even know if that's a word <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> but anyway) of the things going around...you have the large crowd outside UCLA as a factor...of course they were trying to get into UCLA to see MJ so they if they were trying to get in a different way they might of accidentally spotted MJ leaving out the back and then you have others (doctors, patients etc.) in UCLA.
Hello TS! Thank you for another mind blowing and driving crazy question! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I'm still working on my theory, trying to connect all the dots.
I just wanted to share one video with you guys, which made me go <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->. It's called "Realistic Dummy Body Effects", <!-- m -->http://www.fruzeo.com/video/486520/Real ... dy-Effects<!-- m -->. People who can't stand blood, corpse and other disturbing things related to death please DO NOT WATCH!!! Actually i'm one of those people, so now i don't know how i'm going to sleep, even though i was trying to keep in mind that these are not real people but only DOLLS. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I just thought that maybe this video could help someone develop their own theory of who/what was/wasn't in ambulance and UCLA.
I am very very very sorry if this video caused any kind of negative feelings!!! <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
OK one more thought...I think it was a corpse of somebody else in the ambulance not only for the reasons stated above(and I don't think the paramedics would lie under oath just to protect MJ, I think more like they are not in), but also because the 911 call mentioned a 50 years old gentleman, not Michael Jackson.
This way the bodyguard who made the phone call didn't have to lie as well....
A real corpse reduces the number of people who had to be in to FBI and high-level LAFD.....maybe UCLA and the coroner really worked on that body ...after all it was admitted under the name Soul Shaun or soemthing like this..... but they never did a DNA test?
Anyway, I am not sure but form what I've saw after more than 8-12 hours from death the face of the deceased changes in a way that makes him/her unrecognizable for people who are not familar with that person, so if the coroner was told that body was Michael Jackson's - maybe he just believed it without questioning.
But what if there was Michael in the ambulance, playing dead, and when they arrived at the coroner he just jumped out of the van and went to the airport?
But in this case the coroner and UCLA have to be in.
But what if the van video was real (the one who they told was faked by a german television) ? In this case there was Michael all the way, in the ambulance, at UCLA and in the helicopter and in the coroner's van.....but this means everybody is in, all those people.......even if Mj is such a good actor, I just don't think he could hold his breath that long <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Sorry Michael...... I love you, but I don't understand anything <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
But what if the van video was real (the one who they told was faked by a german television) ? In this case there was Michael all the way, in the ambulance, at UCLA and in the helicopter and in the coroner's van.....but this means everybody is in, all those people.......even if Mj is such a good actor, I just don't think he could hold his breath that long <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s --><!-- s -->
Sorry Michael...... I love you, but I don't understand anything <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I saw the made of that video before but what if the made of is a fake ?!
ahhhhh...I'm not sure it's fake. And even if it's fake - it's still suspicious why they made it soon after his death. I don't think it is moral or appropriate somebody's death to be used for testing people when it comes to a man's suffering and death. This is just plain sick to me.
Why they didn't make such a video when other famous people died?
Why only with Michael Jackson?
What if that video was supposed to be a clue after all?
Hello TS! Thank you for another mind blowing and driving crazy question! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I'm still working on my theory, trying to connect all the dots.
I just wanted to share one video with you guys, which made me go <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->. It's called "Realistic Dummy Body Effects", <!-- m -->http://www.fruzeo.com/video/486520/Real ... dy-Effects<!-- m -->. People who can't stand blood, corpse and other disturbing things related to death please DO NOT WATCH!!! Actually i'm one of those people, so now i don't know how i'm going to sleep, even though i was trying to keep in mind that these are not real people but only DOLLS. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I just thought that maybe this video could help someone develop their own theory of who/what was/wasn't in ambulance and UCLA.
I am very very very sorry if this video caused any kind of negative feelings!!! <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Holy crap that's cool! It looks so real! But would EMT's be fooled with it? Would they not know it was not a real body? If it's possible to fool professional people with a dummy like this, it would be a possibility but I can't imagine that trained EMT's who handle real people numerous times a day would not notice. And if they really wanted to fool the EMT's with such an expensive dummy, why not make it look like MJ?
Is there more information about these kinds of dummies somewhere?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Hello TS! Thank you for another mind blowing and driving crazy question! <!-- s --><!-- s -->
I'm still working on my theory, trying to connect all the dots.
I just wanted to share one video with you guys, which made me go <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->. It's called "Realistic Dummy Body Effects", <!-- m -->http://www.fruzeo.com/video/486520/Real ... dy-Effects<!-- m -->. People who can't stand blood, corpse and other disturbing things related to death please DO NOT WATCH!!! Actually i'm one of those people, so now i don't know how i'm going to sleep, even though i was trying to keep in mind that these are not real people but only DOLLS. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I just thought that maybe this video could help someone develop their own theory of who/what was/wasn't in ambulance and UCLA.
I am very very very sorry if this video caused any kind of negative feelings!!! <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Holy crap that's cool! It looks so real! But would EMT's be fooled with it? Would they not know it was not a real body? If it's possible to fool professional people with a dummy like this, it would be a possibility but I can't imagine that trained EMT's who handle real people numerous times a day would not notice. And if they really wanted to fool the EMT's with such an expensive dummy, why not make it look like MJ?
Is there more information about these kinds of dummies somewhere?
I don't know. This was the only video which shows that kind of very realistic dummy. I was looking for images or websites, but found nothing interesting. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I agree with you that trying to fool EMT is a VERY tricky business, i also think that it's not possible. It's easy to fool people with no medical background, but any kind of medical worker spends years of examining the corpses in medical school (side note: that's why i NEVER EVER wanted to be a doctor) and of course years of practice with dead bodies when they actually start to work.
Also as you said why they didn't make it a perfect copy of MJ?
But i just also thought how cool is that? It looks 99% identical to human bodies.
I'm not an investigator <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: --> So, I thank you, TS, and all the rest of you for your skills and direction. I'm still here. LOVE♥
I read somewhere that Marlon has a good friend who works for the FBI He is the one who gave him the cap. I am trying to find information but I am press for time. Once I find it I will post it. @TS are you a lawyer? Wow I am amazed with what you come out everytime. Blessings.
I feel like we are going in circles, but never have any facts.
In the beginning of this rollercoaster, we all stuck with "the most obvious answers".
Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.
I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research, (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc.. Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful. A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....
The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.
You just have to look at this website and their logo......
I feel like we are going in circles, but never have any facts.
In the beginning of this rollercoaster, we all stuck with "the most obvious answers".
Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.
I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research, (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc.. Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful. A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....
The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.
You just have to look at this website and their logo......
Do you mean in the helicopter??? I still believe that was an illusion created by the the person on board, preparing for the landing, and turned the stretcher around...
I still think the theory most likely is a double of Michael went to the hospital in his place, and for me is the double of TII. I agree, if so, all the paramedics and some people of UCLA would have to know the hoax.
But do not discount other hypotheses.
Before, I thought anyone would be very ill in Carolwood, maybe some longtime friend ( your double) that Michael decided to help. This explains the use of drugs like morphine, propofol and oxygen bubbles found in the room. I remember Kai Chase said no one could climb to the third floor of the house, then the reason is that no one could see what was there. The hiring of Murray would be to monitor this patient and administer the drugs in time to avoid suffering of the patient. But this story would be very grim if Michael proposed to take care of a patient when he suited up and on the exact day that he (Michael) decided to die it just asks to turn off the oxygen, or give a very high dosage of drugs to commit a euthanasia. Ok, terminal patients with cancer are sometimes sent home to die with the family, but nobody can predict the exact day of the death and for what we already know the date of June 25 was well planned, according to numerology. Would not that be a kind of crime? Michael would not engage in it.
Yet the theory of dolls, I agree with Souza, you can not fool a health professional with synthetic dolls. I've seen one of these in college and is all very different, starting with the appearance of the skin. If that doll was used, was not with the intention to deceive paramedics and doctors at UCLA.
I do not think Michael himself went to the hospital ... would be so risky! But it may be possible, after all, Michael is audacious enough. He even said in TII, "the fearless MJ.
Oh Michael, what did you do anyway?
TS, we will need of you, so much! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
I want to ask these questions before I forget 'em <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
If a dummy or dead body went to UCLA...who sit up in the copter?
(but that don't mean a different "person" wasn't on the way to the morgue)
Of course, if Michael got "caught" getting out of that van, wouldn't it stand to reason that they made it look like it was a set up????
Maybe Michael was disguised once again as an old man, so the medics wouldn't be lying or so they could say they didn't know it was Michael?
But, honestly, to say anything besides the medics knew is crazy, because, say these medics are REAL...they would be taking stats!! They'd KNOW it was a dummy. Now it could be a cadaver..
Really, I'm with what MJonmind wrote. Mj is a performer. Bottom line.
I still think the theory most likely is a double of Michael went to the hospital in his place, and for me is the double of TII. I agree, if so, all the paramedics and some people of UCLA would have to know the hoax.
But do not discount other hypotheses.
Before, I thought anyone would be very ill in Carolwood, maybe some longtime friend ( your double) that Michael decided to help. This explains the use of drugs like morphine, propofol and oxygen bubbles found in the room. I remember Kai Chase said no one could climb to the third floor of the house, then the reason is that no one could see what was there. The hiring of Murray would be to monitor this patient and administer the drugs in time to avoid suffering of the patient. But this story would be very grim if Michael proposed to take care of a patient when he suited up and on the exact day that he (Michael) decided to die it just asks to turn off the oxygen, or give a very high dosage of drugs to commit a euthanasia. Ok, terminal patients with cancer are sometimes sent home to die with the family, but nobody can predict the exact day of the death and for what we already know the date of June 25 was well planned, according to numerology. Would not that be a kind of crime? Michael would not engage in it.
This is what I had thought originally also, knowing how Michael liked to help people. And it would give a body and an autopsy. BUT, then you'd have to rule out the numerology aspect. Which I have done, but again, how can all that be a considental?
Yet the theory of dolls, I agree with Souza, you can not fool a health professional with synthetic dolls. I've seen one of these in college and is all very different, starting with the appearance of the skin. If that doll was used, was not with the intention to deceive paramedics and doctors at UCLA.
This is also true. Also, I think this theory demands that the medics where in on it. They couldn't do stats or life support on a dummy and not know.
I do not think Michael himself went to the hospital ... would be so risky! But it may be possible, after all, Michael is audacious enough. He even said in TII, "the fearless MJ.
I can just see the film of Michael being there laughing...
remember the rumor of a second ambulance going out of the other end of the drive? Could've been in there?
Oh Michael, what did you do anyway? How do we get a definitive answer to questions that are just a speculative collaboration?
TS, we will need of you, so much! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Lou Ferrigno, Michael Jackson’s Personal Trainer for the O2 Concerts in London, has spoken fondly in an interview on
Michael Jackson's trainer Lou Ferrigno
the Television show Good Day LA, about how MJ loved to play pranks quite often and how he would also disguise himself. He laughs and jokes along as he also tells how Michael used to place a Mannequin of himself in an ambulance to deter the Paparazzi. How very interesting… <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> A hot room to warm the Mannequin to the right temperature.
Comments
I will say that I also believe there was a real corpse in the ambulance.
Because as TS says, “The question of whether all, some, or none of the paramedics are in on the hoax, is a question that has not yet been answered with at least two strong points which nobody can debunk.” I don’t believe that all of the paramedics were in on it because of the statement that was reported, “Paramedics didn’t realize for nearly 10 minutes the victim was Michael Jackson. As one emergency worker put it: ‘It just looked like a frail, old, sickly man.’” #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better!
Also because of two things that concern the coroner’s office:
First there is the initial autopsy report that stated that his “emaciated body was riddled with needle marks and scars, and his head was virtually bald… Jackson's body had wasted away to a mere 112 pounds, and his stomach was completely empty except for partially dissolved pills.” The second relates to a discussion I had with a guy on my job toward the end of 2009. I was telling him about all the things that were pointing to Michael not being dead, and he was definitely a non-believer. He said he had a friend that worked in the coroner’s office and who told him that she saw Michael’s body. And because she told him that, along with the news reports, he was totally convinced that Michael was dead. I told him “I don’t deny that she saw a body, but it wasn’t Michael’s body.” To say the least that statement didn’t go over well with him.
Having an actual dead body was a necessary key in putting this hoax over. They needed a real body for the paramedic(s) and others (such as employees in the coroner’s office) that were not in on the hoax. #1 the fewer people in on the hoax, the better.
Stay blessed!
OnTheWingsOfLove
I agree, at least for the moment
Just a thought about the guy you talked to's friend who said he saw Michael's body. Would not the person inside the coroner place who is in on the hoax, be the one to possibly switch bodies right there, putting the tags that say MJJ on another body. Remember the helicopter pics where clearly a body in a bag went from UCLA into the helicopter but a flat board left it and was carried into the county coroner's office. And of course we saw the movement of the body in the heli.
My theory is one that still sticks in my mind. I believe it was Michael in the ambulance. Of course the amb pic was staged the other day, but on the 25th, MJ could have had make-up on to look like an older hospice man, but not necessary (the paramedics if in on the hoax obviously have to lie anyway at the trial, as will everyone else in on it). The EMT 3 would have to be in on it, since any of the options of "bodies" that TS has given would be noticed as suspicious to unsuspecting paramedics. Once they got to the hospital, all the lockdown and tight security, protection for this huge celeb death would be in full force. MJ fully covered with a sheet can be wheeled whereever, and at one point at the entrance sits up just for hoax purposes (prankster that he is). Strange that at that point you don't see anyone else (media/fans) around the entrance doors. The doctor that examines him at UCLA would have to be in it, making the final assessment that he is "dead". MJ is again wrapped in the sheet (remember Black or White "I ain't scared of no sheets" <!-- s
The biggest reason I say this is because of studying the kind of person MJ is. Someone else asked why MJ didn't just leave in the night if there was a cadaver or body double etc. Also why did he even need to leave in a plane for somewhere? Why not just lay low somewhere in hiding? He abviously returned to LA not long after, and after all these years knows how to evade public/media attention if he wants to. But I think he did the plane thing just to make a big production of closing the airport down. There are so many things about this hoax that are pure and simple, show-business stunts and spectacular fanfare. MJ is a showman, now why in the world would he give the leading role and the most fun part to play, a dead MJ to another double? His kind of mind wants to be in the centre of the action, the most thrilling part of all, all the while doing it right under the noses of the media, fans, some of the medical, police, fire, security and some friends.
Remember MJ always said that he was hands-on with everything he did, every stage of production, loves acting, director, creating, putting in illusion and magic into everthing he does.
[youtube:3lr49dhc]
the big question is: who is who now <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
In the beginning of this rollercoaster, we all stuck with "the most obvious answers".
Maybe its not as complicated as we are led to believe.
I feel that a real body was in the ambulance, a body donated for medical research, (perhaps a homeless man, that had a terminal illness) and a similar person in age, height etc..and a person who had lung disease....therefore would explain all the medical problems found at the autopsy, and all the needle marks..the oxygen tanks etc.. Bodies are donated every day in America and the monetary rewards are plentiful. A rumour started that is was Michael Jackson, and the rest is history....
The only people therefore involved are the ones that helped organise the terminal patient or already dead body to get to MJ's house....and as we never saw any footage of the ambulance arriving, the body could have arrived that morning, and kept warm to simulate a recent death estimate.
You just have to look at this website and their logo......
<!-- m -->http://www.funerals.org/become-member<!-- m -->
I agree...if you look it like this;
The paramedics could be involved but then that would mean that most of the UCLA who were involved with the MJ situation, and we know MJ wanted only a small amount of people involved in the hoax.
But then if they weren't involved and there was a real body I don't understand why the doctor wouldn't sign the death cirtificate unless the doctor is the only one who knows about the hoax...which would mean a small amount of people involved.
Also I don't think MJ himself was at UCLA because of the unpredictability (I don't even know if that's a word <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> but anyway) of the things going around...you have the large crowd outside UCLA as a factor...of course they were trying to get into UCLA to see MJ so they if they were trying to get in a different way they might of accidentally spotted MJ leaving out the back and then you have others (doctors, patients etc.) in UCLA.
I'm still working on my theory, trying to connect all the dots.
I just wanted to share one video with you guys, which made me go <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:o -->:o<!-- s:o -->. It's called "Realistic Dummy Body Effects", <!-- m -->http://www.fruzeo.com/video/486520/Real ... dy-Effects<!-- m -->. People who can't stand blood, corpse and other disturbing things related to death please DO NOT WATCH!!! Actually i'm one of those people, so now i don't know how i'm going to sleep, even though i was trying to keep in mind that these are not real people but only DOLLS. <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
I just thought that maybe this video could help someone develop their own theory of who/what was/wasn't in ambulance and UCLA.
I am very very very sorry if this video caused any kind of negative feelings!!! <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
This way the bodyguard who made the phone call didn't have to lie as well....
Anyway, I am not sure but form what I've saw after more than 8-12 hours from death the face of the deceased changes in a way that makes him/her unrecognizable for people who are not familar with that person, so if the coroner was told that body was Michael Jackson's - maybe he just believed it without questioning.
But in this case the coroner and UCLA have to be in.
But what if the van video was real (the one who they told was faked by a german television) ? In this case there was Michael all the way, in the ambulance, at UCLA and in the helicopter and in the coroner's van.....but this means everybody is in, all those people.......even if Mj is such a good actor, I just don't think he could hold his breath that long <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s
Sorry Michael...... I love you, but I don't understand anything <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
The video is FAKE! Here are all evidences needed to prove that this video is fake. <!-- m -->http://artoftheprank.com/2009/09/02/mic ... sh-german/<!-- m -->
L.O.V.E
ahhhhh...I'm not sure it's fake. And even if it's fake - it's still suspicious why they made it soon after his death. I don't think it is moral or appropriate somebody's death to be used for testing people when it comes to a man's suffering and death. This is just plain sick to me.
Why they didn't make such a video when other famous people died?
Why only with Michael Jackson?
What if that video was supposed to be a clue after all?
Holy crap that's cool! It looks so real! But would EMT's be fooled with it? Would they not know it was not a real body? If it's possible to fool professional people with a dummy like this, it would be a possibility but I can't imagine that trained EMT's who handle real people numerous times a day would not notice. And if they really wanted to fool the EMT's with such an expensive dummy, why not make it look like MJ?
Is there more information about these kinds of dummies somewhere?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."I don't know. This was the only video which shows that kind of very realistic dummy. I was looking for images or websites, but found nothing interesting. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
I agree with you that trying to fool EMT is a VERY tricky business, i also think that it's not possible. It's easy to fool people with no medical background, but any kind of medical worker spends years of examining the corpses in medical school (side note: that's why i NEVER EVER wanted to be a doctor) and of course years of practice with dead bodies when they actually start to work.
Also as you said why they didn't make it a perfect copy of MJ?
But i just also thought how cool is that? It looks 99% identical to human bodies.
IGNORANTIA JURIS NON EXCUSAT
@TS are you a lawyer? Wow I am amazed with what you come out everytime. Blessings.
Buuutttt...how'd that dead body MOVE???
Do you mean in the helicopter??? I still believe that was an illusion created by the the person on board, preparing for the landing, and turned the stretcher around...
But do not discount other hypotheses.
Before, I thought anyone would be very ill in Carolwood, maybe some longtime friend ( your double) that Michael decided to help. This explains the use of drugs like morphine, propofol and oxygen bubbles found in the room. I remember Kai Chase said no one could climb to the third floor of the house, then the reason is that no one could see what was there. The hiring of Murray would be to monitor this patient and administer the drugs in time to avoid suffering of the patient. But this story would be very grim if Michael proposed to take care of a patient when he suited up and on the exact day that he (Michael) decided to die it just asks to turn off the oxygen, or give a very high dosage of drugs to commit a euthanasia. Ok, terminal patients with cancer are sometimes sent home to die with the family, but nobody can predict the exact day of the death and for what we already know the date of June 25 was well planned, according to numerology. Would not that be a kind of crime? Michael would not engage in it.
Yet the theory of dolls, I agree with Souza, you can not fool a health professional with synthetic dolls. I've seen one of these in college and is all very different, starting with the appearance of the skin. If that doll was used, was not with the intention to deceive paramedics and doctors at UCLA.
I do not think Michael himself went to the hospital ... would be so risky! But it may be possible, after all, Michael is audacious enough. He even said in TII, "the fearless MJ.
Oh Michael, what did you do anyway?
TS, we will need of you, so much! <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
If a dummy or dead body went to UCLA...who sit up in the copter?
(but that don't mean a different "person" wasn't on the way to the morgue)
Of course, if Michael got "caught" getting out of that van, wouldn't it stand to reason that they made it look like it was a set up????
Maybe Michael was disguised once again as an old man, so the medics wouldn't be lying or so they could say they didn't know it was Michael?
But, honestly, to say anything besides the medics knew is crazy, because, say these medics are REAL...they would be taking stats!! They'd KNOW it was a dummy. Now it could be a cadaver..
Really, I'm with what MJonmind wrote. Mj is a performer. Bottom line.
Michael Jackson's trainer Lou Ferrigno
the Television show Good Day LA, about how MJ loved to play pranks quite often and how he would also disguise himself. He laughs and jokes along as he also tells how Michael used to place a Mannequin of himself in an ambulance to deter the Paparazzi. How very interesting… <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> A hot room to warm the Mannequin to the right temperature.