Re - Education : will things be any different!
What do people think about Re-Education in the way we relate to superstar entertainers being as much a part of this process as the other issues that have been widely discussed. By that I mean: this Sabbatical has presented an opportunity to re-assess and consider the position of fans, supporters, admirers and even detractors. Rather than thinking about his personal reasons, its possible that it's to evaluate the way we relate to superstars, celebs and notables in general (not just the awakening of the global issues that we are facing). I want to relate a story, something from about 9 years ago, you didn't have to be there as it has been televised if you watched it. It was an appearance by MJ and of coarse there was a crowd and television crews present and they were all waiting for him to come out on the street. When he did the hysteria erupted with a few over zealous fans getting to push their way to the front of the barricade of security and sure enough they got the "goods"--- the fleeting photo, kiss, few words. A cameraman panned around and focused on this girl who was hanging back, not near the front of the frenzy and she was crying. A guy turned to her and asked her what was wrong, she should be happy that she got to catch a glimpse of MJ and her reply was that she was doing the Respectful thing by hanging back and not barging her way through like the others, yet the Respectful fans never get the opportunities that the hysterical fans get. If that particular woman is on this forum, (and of coarse all the other fans just like her), let me say that IT didn't go unnoticed!!
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You are so right, BlackJack - I can only imagine what Michael has had to deal with throughout his life. It breaks my heart how you relay the story of his hair being pulled out by over-zealous fans.
Would you expound on your thoughts about re-education and how the hoax could accomplish this? I'm really fascinated by this thought and it's the first time I believe it's been presented in this manner.
I can't imagine how this hoax "project" could be a way to re-educate the populous but wouldn't it be great if Michael and his family could walk down the street like normal human beings without the fear of being attacked by a swarm of over-zealous fans? And it's not just the fans but it's media too and they are probably more dangerous in my opinion. The fans would defend and protect Michael if he were in danger...granted they might accidentally crush him when they think they are just putting a protective barrier around him... Anyway, I can't imagine a Dan Rather, Walter Cronkite or a Barbara Walters acting like we see the media acting like today. It's shameful. I've also had no trouble understanding why Michael has disguised his children for so long. It was never odd to me because he was doing it for safety reasons. I got that. It is nice that they no longer feel the need to hide behind a veil. They are beautiful children.
How many times has MJ said that he just wants to talk to people on a normal level but people don't treat him as a normal person. THIS is important.[/quote]
There have been threads on this forum discussing what we'd ask Michael or say to Michael if we had the chance and I think there are several exceptional people on this forum who Michael would love to talk, laugh, joke, and tell stories with if given the chance. I know I love the colorful personalities on this forum and its easy to see why Michael loves his fans so much. And after June 25, 2009 I have learned why Michael Jackson has the loyal fans that he does. He's an exceptional human being. Thank you for sharing with us. Blessings.
Form a crowd a dozen deep and tear at him and scream and scream like a herd of animals?? And that is okay, even when he's flinching and ducking and yelping in pain? They don't stop at the sight of that?? Even as a child?!
' Fan' is short for 'fanatic'.. That's why a lot of the time I can't help but wish that he would have sharpened up the old tongue in the past and spoken out to them, like that '93 message from Neverland..
He certainly has had the right to be less than courteous to them and I wish he would have at least done that. I really feel for that one person that actually chose to respect him as a human being.. It is so ridiculously unfair that the people who did so often most likely didn't get the chance to even see him amongst all of the chaos- I hope there aren't too many people who care about and admire him who could have had the chance to meet him (Especially if they were too poor to make it to his concerts), but didn't get to, just because everyone else felt like making a big stir..! Ugh. Yes, BJ, every single person who chose not to be a part of that is more likely than not, appreciated very much by MJ.. Let me just say that I would never think of acting in such a way, but it's not like I've ever been lucky or wealthy enough to have ever been anywhere that he has, at all, and I know of lot of others here on the boards have it that way, too..
Seeing the nuttiness can also really make one feel better if they were upset about discovering his use of doubles, maybe hopefully a lot of those mob scenes weren't him, but a guy who got some money for it instead..!
Then there is the challenge of a romantic relationship in the public eye of scrutiny. Just think of poor Yoko or Linda Mac. That to me seems like an insurmountable challenge. So many glaring obstacles such as fan jealousy and criticism that I don't think many people could begin to understand what that pressure would do to a budding relationship. Yes all in all it seems a very steep price to me.
I hope others around the world do too as THIS needs to be addressed, today, right now. Everybody is responsible for their own behaviour and WE can make that change. It would go a long way to showing how much he is thought of, for the right reasons, not selfish ones. If things aren't going to change then what is the point......................IT starts with the fans taking a stand and demonstrating a CHANGE and leading by example.
BlackJack: you bring up such a great point. If fans were more controlled and more calm, the media would be too. Which star would the media rather write about?
1) the star who can simply go to the grocery store and grab dinner....no real fuss about them. or
2) the star that has fanatical fans that shred them to pieces, cry, scream and humiliate themselves.
Bingo.....star number 2 gets the prize.
Unfortunately, the media of today is capable of molding anything about anyone, anywhere, anytime....it's truly absurd. It's a full cycle of fan pandemonium to media frenzy. The fans make the media go wild for the star, the media writes the star into superhero status for the fans. As I see it, there is no hope for maturity in the media. They will forever be the juvenile delinquents in the stars' lives. Perhaps, BlackJack will have fans thinking twice about the way they behave.
I hope Michael reads this and feels a glimmer of hope. To have a real conversation about life with him would be the ultimate gift for any fan, a respectable fan that is <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Thank you BlackJack for THIS....it's so important.
Blessings Always
You could almost look at it as he is hoaxing the frenzied fans too along with the media, while exposing himself to those who would be more likely to sit back and observe (certain hoaxers), rather then jump into the chaos head first.
Reminds me of Klein's, pee in a cup at parties, story.
Possibly off topic but it came to mind.
So will that change? It might. I have talked to some hard core MJ fans that when pushed: "well WHAT IF Michael hoaxed his death, that would be great, right?" and by and large the response is ANGER. They would be FURIOUS with him and say he is an A%^H&*@ for doing that ("lying") to THEM (oh and his kids)". Shocking but not uncommon. The emotion it evokes is very raw and deep and probably masking something else they have going on, some dark inner void they fill with Michael (I'm not judging).
Is this to say that when faced with it some will change their tune and weep with joy? Of course. But I think he would almost certainly have to be aware that he WILL lose some of his hardest hardcore fans over this, when they finally realize he is NOT the person they think he is and they do NOT accept it... and it's entirely possible he's perfectly ok with that.
The fans = POWER.
Imagine a time when MJ may be able to shop in a mall without having to have it shut down (and pay for lost takings) for his exclusive use just so he can experience what it's like to do normal things. That's where the fans play a part in allowing this to happen and not bombarding him. Act with dignity and respect him like you would anyone else and he'd appreciate it.
The media is difficult, there really needs to be legislation against the vultures.
Well I agree. But they sure seem oblivious to what I find obvious. I don't quite understand how that comes to be but it's interesting isn't it.
One thing this hoax investigating is teaching me is that the modern obsession with 'celebrity' is totally out of control. I don't know when we, as a society, all decided we had a right to know, and comment on, every personal detail about someone, just because they are famous. What was wrong with just appreciating (or not) a performer for the performance they gave, whether that be an actor, musician, sportsman, whatever? If they wanted to tell us more, fine, but if they wanted to remain private, they could.
And what's even more worrying is the way 'being famous' is like a career choice for so many young people - just watch programmes like X Factor etc. Do they even realise what 'being famous' will mean for their private lives, in today's society? I can't believe anyone wants that for themselves.
Me myself, after more then a year in almost what you can call 'studying' MJ, I feel like this particular issue you're talking about is very important. Another member has brought up this subject a while back. All his life he always said that he wanted to a normal person, to be able to walk in the street and see people acting normal and their usual self. They know what he always wished for, they should have/should just listen to him. Maybe now they will listen to him. I know it's difficult, and some fans can't control themselves.
As for that women, I most definitely know how she felt. The same would've happened to me.
Let me for once relate to my personal experience: I share a postcode with a number of "superstars" (Some have sang with MJ!) and since getting "involved" in finding the truth about MJ "death", it really stuck me how different his "relationship" with the fans and the media appeared to be, compare to my "neighbours"!
To start with they have not got fans or paparazzi following them everywhere, they are just part of the local community, we may sit down at the local coffee and exchange a few words about the state of the nation or swap a <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> in the street... but nothing other than normality! They appear to an extend to dissociate their artistic life from their private life, they have set their boundaries that way and I guess it works for them. It is about feeling respected and being able to have normal "relationships" with others, away from the limelight.
I think that those individuals have made a conscious decision that this was the way they wanted it and their fans, admirers, detractors...etc, have "learnt" to interact with them in a certain way and... camping in front of their doors is not part of the deal!
Michael in contrast, seems to have been "hunted" constantly by both the media and fans. And whilst, I would expect some of this around big events (Concerts) where 10,000's of people are escaping from their day to day reality to walk into the artist dreams, on the day to day basis Respect should prevail! But it is difficult for fans to see the man through the artist, they see the artist as the man and illusion as reality, it is all blurred into one and they will do anything to achieve their dreams... This is credit to the huge talent and charisma of the man and his creation! They just Love him in their own way, the way they think he wants to be loved!
So does this mean that Michael's fans "need" to be "re-educated"? Honest opinion? Following this deserved "sabbatical" Michael has got the opportunity to change the way he interacts with his fans (if he so wishes), through his actions, his messages and the image he projects; he will need to reward what he values and publicly reject what he doesn't and stick with it for the time it takes to change attitudes and behaviours and...maybe forever. Love should make it easier for his message to go through! But Change does take Time! And Change does not happen by chance!
Paparazzi and Media? Part of the re-education program" too! Stricter legislation? Yes
With L.O.V.E
BTW he DID want the fame/status/to be the best at what he does. He made the dreams a reality and has paid the price many times over. He just doesn't want to have to keep on paying!
The conversation went on a little more about his music. I then dropped the bomb on her about the hoax. The fact that I 101% beLIEve Michael is alive. Remember, she was not a real fan etc.....do you know what her response was? She said,
"That would be freaking awesome!"
Enough Said.
Blessings Always
P.S. She said she would check out the forum, videos etc..... <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
...now with this hoax, really, he surpasses everything ever known. Never-been-done-before kind of things! Takeover anyone? New status in perspective.
BlackJack: I am sure Michael had time of his life as a young man. He was respected in the music industry, wrote songs from his heart that shattered records, could help others in need to satisfy his soul, had life by the horns basically......what young man wouldn't want that...you are indeed correct. However, no amount of fame was worth what Michael had to pay....and is still paying. (my heart breaks for him) I don't blame him one bit for taking on this hoax. My only hope is that he is enjoying life, finally. May he be blessed beyond the stars for a life of contributions.
Sarahli: Michael has indeed surpassed everything known. Everyone here knows his precision of showmanship......it will continue with him leading the way <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> The Greatest Show On Earth, I am humbled to be a very small part of it.
Blessings Always
Hi Black Jack <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->
Interesting post.
I have seen this and last year videos were MJ has been pushed and almost killed by the fans. First time I watched those videos, the first memory that came in to my mind was a quote I read in 1988 in a MJ comic book a friend of mine lended me. In the translation, he said with tears in his eyes, "People don´t treat me as a human being".
I reflected back about how people approached Michael Jackson with "love" and hysteria, sadly, not only when a concert happens, which I can understand to a certain level, but on the streets, even with his children holding his hand.
The question that came to my mind was: when should be see Michael the KOP and Michael the father, the person, the average Joe who wants to go and shop in the mall?
Well, is not an easy task to solve just by thinking...we are talking about TKOP.
The next question was: Let´s be MJ for a second, to try to see things from his point of view...how would it feel?
But, of course, I could not answer that question either.....My life was never as Michaels when talking about being a Music star.
The next step for me was to make a little personal test.
I isolated Michael Jackson for his money, life, stardom, gossip, fan admiration, love, charity contributions and information we have received about him by the years. I thought about him. As a result, I just got to see a lovely candid confused unhappy man.
Soon or later, we get what we want but not in the way we want or expected.
Is the dilema to educate "just the hysterical fans"? or to educate generally ourselves to accept and understand that for the choices we make the consequences we carry and must be able to learn how to live the best we can and to get the best out of every situation?
In other words. Could have Michael Jackson used the "hysterical fans" reactions and turn them the other way around, rewiring that negative aspect of his stardom in to something positive without taking extreme measurements?
All I know is that, up to today, I would have been the "girl" standing far away, respecting his space and living the moment, not focusing in grabbing "a piece of the trophy", but I would have liked, for once, to have been able to tell MJ everything is going to be ok
If someone would have told me before June 25th 2009 that I would be missing so much someone who was a part of my childhood but does not even know I exist, I would have surely denied it.
There are 2 categories of fans: the hard core ones who go wild when they see MJ, follow him franticly everywhere, making it impossible for him to even walk from his car into a building without an army of bodyguards, not to mention anything else that everyone does in their everyday lives; and the "peaceful" fans, who would just get a picture, say hello and move on... And the difference is like you said in self-control. And imo, it's also about how they understand to show their love for him. They don't see his side, just theirs. They are too caught up in their excitement to see him that they forget he's a human being too, not a god, and certainly not a circus monkey on display at the zoo. ( sorry for the crude comparison, but some fans treat him like that sometimes ) And while Michael himself is too kind to bring it to their attention like this , out of fear of hurting them or loosing them maybe, or maybe just pr...I think the rest of the fans should. They are the only ones who CAN. The media is certainly not gonna do it, so who's left?!
That's why I'm glad you brought it up, cause only we can do something to make them see that this behavior is hurting him and making it difficult to lead a more normal life. And to a certain extent, this is being done right now. But it will take time. We just need to remember it and not stop.
Only one question puzzles me: will this benefit MJ? Cause if he;s not coming back, it wont make a difference in his life. And like The Running girl said, there aren't other celebrities who get this kind of the "treatment". And if waking up only MJ fans is all we can do, it's not good enough. It's not gonna reach other fans of other celebrities who are behaving like this.....
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Totally agree with this - well said!