Hoax within a Hoax within a Hoax?
I thought I'd share some thoughts in general about this whole situation that all of us on this forum are voluntarily participating in. We already understand that MJ knows all about how to use the Power of Mystery : holding back, keeping things hidden and not giving EVERYTHING away, makes people WANT IT more. This is just a simple fact of Human Nature, no magic involved...... yet it creates magic! It stimulates people's minds and they conjure up all sorts of ideas as to what they think is going on. I beLIEve that's what MJ wants to SEE -- people interacting and what types of theories they come up with. It's as much a human experiment in observation as anything else, and if it raises people's awareness in other areas of global importance, then that's a terrific by - product bonus.
Howard Hughes also knew how to make the public interested in him... ring any bells! It was interesting how the hoax involving the writing of Howard Hughes' autobiography played out. It's food for thought.
I think we would all agree that MJ has earned the right to observe the world away from the spotlight for a while, given that he has been on public display for a lifetime with people scrutinizing his every move and judging him without even knowing him personally. Despite all of the trials and tribulations he has handled himself with a lot of grace considering the ordeals he has been subjected to. There has been a lot of fantastic investigating and examination of information going on over the last 15 months but we still need to focus on the man and his messages as I don't think that speculation on which way his chest hair grows is what he meant when he asked that we "discover the man you never knew".
Howard Hughes also knew how to make the public interested in him... ring any bells! It was interesting how the hoax involving the writing of Howard Hughes' autobiography played out. It's food for thought.
I think we would all agree that MJ has earned the right to observe the world away from the spotlight for a while, given that he has been on public display for a lifetime with people scrutinizing his every move and judging him without even knowing him personally. Despite all of the trials and tribulations he has handled himself with a lot of grace considering the ordeals he has been subjected to. There has been a lot of fantastic investigating and examination of information going on over the last 15 months but we still need to focus on the man and his messages as I don't think that speculation on which way his chest hair grows is what he meant when he asked that we "discover the man you never knew".
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i just want to make it perfectly clear that my post on that thread were merely intended to be funny and i was not being lustful <!-- s
you make me really curious about what you believe this whole thing to be about.
i don't know if it is here on the forum but the little clip of gladis knight always stands out to me. what she has to say holds so much truth it is painful to hear.i had never really paid michael much attention before june 2009. really i din't see much of what he did because i just didn't care that much for the music in general at the time when he was most popular. i remember how hard it seemed to hit me after i started to listen and learn about him.my daughter seemed to kind of nail it that i was mournig over what i had missed.
blackjack why do yuur threads always wind up making me so emotional?
As for holding back to create mystery.....it's been spot on. Michael knows that the core of human nature is desire. Not always a lustful desire, but a desire to grow emotionally, to grow spiritually, and to be a part of something larger than themselves. Creating that aura of mystery is what he does best. Thus, it creates our desire to know more.
Anyways, great post! Thank you again for the thought provoking intellect!
Blessings Always!
best belly laugh i've had in a while.
I completely agree with this statement times 10!
I hear what you're saying and I want to ponder it for a bit and respond a little later.
One question I have as I think about this: BlackJack, are you saying that the Hoax is meant to create this "power of mystery"? You're saying that this is the crux of the hoax? And the hoax within a hoax within a hoax is the way in which we ourselves have tried to interpret MJ's primary intent behind 6/25/09 or the ways in which we attempt to define him? I can speak to what he brings out in me and what I learn from him but I don't want to define him. I want to know him as he wants to be known based on the consistency of his message and what he says about himself.
I'm going to give your post a lot of thought tonight. Thanks.
Squeak <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
In deed...we are....
I could have never expressed that concept beter <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
Yes!
Curious that you mention this now.
I remember writing about it, here and at the other MJ hoax forum, using Skinner´s theories i.e.
I'm Starting With The Man In The Mirror, I'm Asking Him To Change His Ways.
No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer (If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place) (Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make The Change).
IMO, we are learning more about ourselves, our fears, perceptions, prejudices....
In any case, I am not able to understand the title of the post "Hoax within a hoax within a hoax".
Is it that we have created and developed more hoaxes within the main hoax conditionating the main one by our preceptions and evolution of the theories already existing and emergent ones?
I believe that, in a way, MJ wanted to know "US" supporters, followers, fans ,etc, better.
It is giving and taken <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) --> I get to know a bit of you and you get to know a bit of me.
Fans, are the reflection of their artists.
Fans identify in some way with the idol they follow, but Michael Jackson was harrased and almost killed by crowds of fans who "loved him", some fans have also been showing very dark sides of hate towards each other, and also MJ´s family or K. Ortega as an example.
Michael had many messages of love and peace and tolerance and care within his songs, yet those did not reach many of the fans at the end.
I guess that up to this point, MJ wanted to know better "his community" in order to deliver a better Message reaching every single one of us.
He loved everyone and we loved him back, but there are "loves that kills".
This is an ABSOLUTELY true, MJ knows EXCEPTIONALLY well how to use the Power of Mystery to create magic/dreams --- the human mind works in such a way that one often WANTS more what they haven't got, and it is the DESIRE to go and get it that somehow makes people do things they would otherwise never have dreamt of doing! It bolsters creativity as the mind finds ways to fill the gap between the known and the unknown, that's how theories are created...
When it comes to the MJ Hoax, people have been throwing ideas and creating some theories for the last 15 months, some of those theories are no doubt valid, some way of the marks... and more is being discussed. Some topics/theories are more "challenging" than others --- take the Messiah related ones as an example --- and without TRUST are difficult to explore fully... Which type of internet medium and interaction generate absolute TRUST!
How much does MJ wants to SEE and what does HE WANT to do with it? Some of the theories probably make him roll on the floor in total <!-- s
A number of posters have exchanged views on this concept of "human experiment in observation", this I beLIEve to be true. The purpose , at his stage, I do not fully understand; I can only ASSume that the Hoax is being played within an ARG, and as we are on UNKNOWN" territory, it is important to keep a tight grip on it/monitor reactions to clues...etc.
If I beLIEve that I am part of a human experiment in observation, will I behave in the same way as somebody who has got no awareness of it??? This is definitely an area for further exploration!
The story goes that Clifford Irving created a Hoax by claiming to be writing an authorised autobiography of Howard Hughes; everybody started to believe him and Howard Hughes himself had to come out to deny that the Biography was authorised but the belief in the Hoax was such by then that it took a while for the TRUTH to be know, as Howard Hughes himself was seen as a "fake".
What can I conclude from this?
- Hoax can become truth in the eyes of the public
- Hoax can be difficult to get out of
- Hoax can take a life of their own as more people get involved
- Hoax can make the truth look like a Hoax
- Hoaxers could write the authorised autobiography of MJ faked death --- This is an <!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: --> !
BlackJack - were you seeing anything more in this?
<!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) --> - He has earned the right to OBSERVE the World, indeed.
Funny! <!-- s
So much has been discussed over the last 15 months as you are pointing out, that relatively little new information is coming out on the man and his message.
Blackjack, would you happen to have any thoughts on which part of the investigation requires more focus, do you see any obvious gaps or mis-interpretations?
With L.O.V.E
...somehow reminds me of the film Inception where we have the concept of "a dream within a dream within a dream" and it takes a number of layers of inter-related dreams to really "plant" the idea.
Following the same logic, we have the concept of multiple hoaxes being linked to each other to unveil the truth--->
If MJ "died" on june 25th 2009 is one of the 3 hoaxes, what are the other 2 and how do they relate to the first one? (Hoax 2: the media is here to inform the public - Hoax 3: ??? )
Am I reading way too much into all of this?
With L.O.V.E
yep it is official . i am in permanent need of that straight jacket <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? -->
BlackJack - thank you for your thought provoking questions, once again. This is something that really makes sense and I'll need to think about it for a while, for sure.
TheRunningGirl - I agree when you say "the concept of multiple hoaxes being linked to each other to unveil the truth---". I have often wondered if that is why we are having so much trouble figuring this out. It seems like we start down one road of thought and before we can fully work out the truth we are thrown something else that takes us in a completely different direction. We keep running down these bunny trails only to end up where we started much of the time. Hmmm...much to think about but yes, Michael is a master at knowing how to keep the suspense alive. Blessings!
So, basically, nothing is real in life and we should all stop taking it so seriously <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
Hi BlackJack. MJ is observing the world out of sight, sure - but we know this isn't a retirement plan or even a leave of absence. We see MJ fingerprints everywhere and on everything hoax related.
As for the theories - yes the speculation has derailed sanity at times . There have been attacks on the integrity of hoax related people that have been unnecessary and sometimes -um - shocking.
I think as long as there are no character attacks, speculating about theories (like the doubles theory which does involve looking at physical features) could lead somewhere interesting - like the truth.
As for the hoax within a hoax within a hoax, that reminds me of the play within the play in Hamlet that re-enacts how Hamlet believes his Uncle killed his father. Then there are the films (like Gilda, In Lonely Place and The Big Sleep) within a film (Smooth Criminal) within the TII movie.
We've heard a lot about Gilda but not the other films used in TII. I've started preparing a post on it but haven't had time to look at them all yet. <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
does this thought sort of fall into the peter pan "to die would be a great adventure" idea for anyone else?
Yes!
BlackJack said: MJ knows all about how to use the Power of Mystery : holding back, keeping things hidden and not giving EVERYTHING away, makes people WANT IT more. I agree, he's done it all his life and he's still doing it now. I wonder how we are supposed to 'discover the man we never knew', when he's just giving us more of the same mystery/illusion etc and cranking it up several notches at that! Maybe that's the biggest hoax of the lot - that he doesn't actually want us to 'discover' him at all and that all he's giving us now is simply more of his supreme showmanship!
My head hurts too! 'Nothing's real, but all is possible!' All I know is he's got my full attention!
This is an important question.
I suppose we have to ask is June 25 the first, second or third (or more) hoax? Perhaps, June 25th was not the beginning of the hoax, but an additional hoax inside of another hoax type of thing..........where did it all really start? I know we have threads that pertain to this. It's always good to get a fresh perspective.
Hope all are having a great day!
Blessings!
Absolutely and one way or the other "Elvis" is a hoax as well... <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
With L.O.V.E
The current hoax drama within the hoax death, within the hoax life of Michael Jackson?
Curls, I think this is a gradual unveiling of the truth - like taking off a disguise. When Kenny Ortega said of Light Man 'and piece by piece by piece’ he can’t have meant a literal revealing in the TII concerts. The meaning has to be figurative because Light Man could never have happened the way Kenny Ortega describes in the TII DVD. If he had said Light Man was going to be raised at elevator speed to appear on the stage I would have believed that, but not that it was going to rise up from under the ramp and fly over the stage. First, if you look at the structures above the stage, there wasn’t anything in place to allow for such a Peter Pan (cable assisted) adventure. Kenny Ortega was concerned about the cherry picker, can you imagine the potential dangers and complications in flying the Star of their show above the stage in a nine foot suit of light! Michael couldn't have gone into it from underneath after it landed because the stance of the Light Man doesn't allow for that.
So if Peter Pan has flown over the 'stage' in disguise, then we see the glimpses and flashes, including the sunflowers, then the piece by piece by piece starts. What did Kenny say in his tweet about Peter Pan? Don’t look for hidden messages? Cause it's not a hidden message...?